Starting nursery Q&A with Molly

It’s a pleasure to have Molly Morgan back with me today, to answer your questions about starting nursery and breastfeeding. 

You can find out more about Molly on Instagram at @molly_foxandthemoon and www.foxandthemoon.co.uk

My new book, ‘Supporting the Transition from Breastfeeding: a Guide to Weaning for Professionals, Supporters and Parents’, is out now.

You can get 10% off the book at the Jessica Kingsley press website, that's uk.jkp.com using the code MMPE10 at checkout.

Follow me on Twitter @MakesMilk and on Instagram  @emmapickettibclc or find out more on my website www.emmapickettbreastfeedingsupport.com

Questions answered - 

1:59 Do I need to gradually reduce my 10-month-old’s day feeds and feeding to sleep for naps, so that he's more prepared for starting nursery?

5:57  My 18-month-old still won't eat at nursery, but takes pumped milk. I'm now being told to limit breastfeeding and sending pumped milk. What do I do?

9:04 I’m preparing for going back to work, not feeding as much during the day, and when I finally do feed my child, there's a lot of milk in my breasts and they are being sick. Is this normal? Is this a worry?

11:25 What practical things does someone need to think about if they're going back to work at six months? 

18:11 My one-year-old refuses milk when at nursery, even though I provided him with bottles. I think that this is adding to him being very up and down at nursery. What can we do?

20:51 How do we know a baby is getting enough milk/fluids? Should they be drinking intuitively at 13 months?

23:27 What do I do when a 12/13-month-old asks for a breastfeed the minute we pick up from nursery, sometimes to the point of being very upset if they don't get it straight away?

29:15 I'll be going back to work four days a week, from 7am to 6:30pm and my son will be going to nursery. Will he manage on a feed before and after work?

38:11 Most nurseries don't exclude children with hand, foot and mouth disease, but it can end breastfeeding journeys. What are your thoughts?

42:34 My child is a Velcro baby. Would nursery or a childminder be better if they're very sensitive and higher needs?

51:12 My 10-month-old is refusing solids because they're teething. They refuse bottles and cups. Will he be okay for 8.5 hours?

We mentioned Stacey Zimmels @feedeatspeak on Instagram

 And here’s my nursing strike article:

"It's like a switch has flipped": The older baby nursing strike - The Natural Parent Magazine

This podcast is presented by Emma Pickett IBCLC, and produced by Emily Crosby Media.

Transcript

Hi. I'm Emma Pickett, and I'm a lactation consultant from London. When I first started calling myself Makes Milk, that was my superpower at the time, because I was breastfeeding my own two children. And now I'm helping families on their journey. I want your feeding journey to work for you from the very beginning to the very end. And I'm big on making sure parents get support at the end to join me for conversations on how breastfeeding is amazing. And also, sometimes really, really hard. We'll look honestly and openly about that process of making milk. And of course, breastfeeding and chest feeding are a lot more than just making milk.  

Emma Pickett  00:46

Thank you very much for joining me for today's episode. I'm very excited to be joined again by Molly Morgan. I feel like we're a bit of a double act now, Molly, you're my official co presenter. We did an episode a few weeks ago that you can still find on the feed that was about child care and starting childcare with a breastfed baby or toddler, and we're going to be talking again today about breastfeeding and childcare. Molly, if you don't know her, is a holistic sleep coach. She's a maternity nurse. She's a childcare professional that's worked in lots of different settings, including nurseries, and we're going to be answering some of your questions today. So these are some questions that I've collected through Instagram, and Molly's collected some questions as well. So how are you today, Molly?

Molly Morgan 01:29

Yes, I'm good. I feel very privileged to come back on and chat to you. I think we probably could have recorded for about four hours last time. So it's nice to have the opportunity to come and talk about this stuff again. 

Emma Pickett  01:39

Yeah, it's such an important time in people's lives. Starting childcare and starting nursery is such a big thing, and I know how important it is to get it right, and I don't think the questions are going to stop coming. So I'll book you now for the next one, if that's all right. So let's dive in. I'm literally going to read a question. Let's just chat about it. Let's see what we think. So this is the question that came through Instagram. So I have a 10 month old who's due to start nursery when they're one years old. They still have regular feeds day and night, and they feed to sleep. I am stressing that nursery is going to be such a hard transition for him. Do I need to gradually reduce the day feeds and feeding to sleep for naps, so that he's more prepared?

Molly Morgan 02:18

Yeah, I think that's probably like the most common thing is just the inability to visualize how it's going to work when you have a baby that's feeding all day and feeding all night. I mean, I don't know what your thoughts on there, but sort of tapping into the last bit, which we spoke about before, the concept of you as the breastfeeding parent being the one to reduce feeds is highly unlikely to be successful and is highly likely to be more stressful for the both of you. If the only motivation is to do that in terms of prepping for childcare, it's gonna just cause a lot of stress for both the breastfeeding parent and for the baby, because the logic isn't there for them to understand why that feed is being refused. They don't know that they're being prepared for for child care. 

Emma Pickett  03:07

Yeah, exactly right. I mean, I think, I think one of the reasons I'm looking forward to having this conversation with you, Molly, as I said, even though we come from completely different professional backgrounds, I think we're on the same page about so many things, and also, we could call each other out when we're not on the same page, but, but preparing for childcare is, you know, you're saying goodbye at the end of maternity leave. It's been such a beautiful, connected time. You want that child to leave that setting feeling, you know, really good about the connection with their child giver. You want them to be socially confident. You know, really, their mummy cup is completely filled. You know, their love cup is completely filled. The last thing you want is a few weeks of trying to wean and reduce feeds and more dysregulation, and then, oh, here we are now at nursery, leaving them at their most vulnerable time, just after a period of weaning or restricting breastfeeding, and you genuinely do not have to change anything. And I think we did touch on this in the last episode, but it's so important to repeat it again. You can be the parent you want to be when you are with your child, and the child care setting is a completely different story. You cannot practice not being there when you are there. It is literally impossible. It's just not something you can do. And I'm afraid to say the confusion might arise, because occasionally nurseries do give the impression that that is a thing you can do for sure, and that is something that people might even get on, you know, settling in information, but genuinely, you don't need to reduce your feeds. You can carry on feeding responsively right up into the millet you drop them at the door. The only thing I might say is that you probably do want them to be able to drink water out of a cup and be able to drink from something else. And 10 months, 10 months, 12 months, I would want them to be able to eat solids and be and be able to be comfortable eating solids and probably self feeding. So when they're in at mealtime, at lunchtime, you know, someone can pop food in front of them. So if you've got a a 12 month old who you know, doesn't eat. Eat much at all, and is just breastfeeding, that's a slightly different story. We'd want them to be able to get nutrition from somewhere else. But although that doesn't mean bottles necessarily, or doesn't necessarily even mean lots of other milk, but you don't need to gradually reduce the day feeds, and you also don't need to reduce feeding to sleep.

Molly Morgan 05:16

And I think from the mother's perspective, it's normal for there to be a lot of anxiety about that and struggle to visualize it. So rather than, you know, to make yourself feel better, rather than trying to change anything you're doing at home, is there another trusted caregiver that you can leave baby with for a couple of hours just to see how they get on? And it might ease that mother's anxiety a little bit, because they're not going to be expecting a breastfeed from a non breastfeeding caregiver. So that might be a good trial, just just to see if you want to, you don't have to do that. It your baby doesn't need that. But if you feel like that would reassure you a little bit, then that's something you could do. 

Molly Morgan 05:55

Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. 

Emma Pickett  05:57

Okay, let's go to question number two. My 18 month old still won't eat at nursery, but takes pumped milk. I'm now being told to limit breastfeeding and sending pumped milk. What do I do? She eats okay at home. So I am confused. 

Molly Morgan 06:14

Firstly, it's just the most common thing for babies and toddlers to hunger strike at nursery. My questions would be, you know, if they haven't been there that long, give it time they do get there with it. How many days are they attending? If they're only attending one or two days, actually, and they're eating really well at home, they're probably doing okay because an 18 month old toddler, they eat so much less than we actually think they should be eating, and they go through phases as well. That's what I've noticed with the children in my care. Though, one day, they'll eat everything, and then, even if they're at home all the time, the next day that they're not really that interested. So if they're not there that many days and they're eating well at home, I wouldn't be too concerned. But I would have that conversation with the nursery practitioners that actually, if they're not drinking loads and loads of milk, then that's not going to be inhibiting their appetite, and actually reducing that is going to be taking those calories away.

Emma Pickett  07:18

Yeah, I think that's, that's what I would want to think about as well. I mean, if there's a reason why that child isn't eating happily at nursery, great that we've got pump breast milk, and if a parent's willing to pump at 18 months, What a lucky little person they are to receive that milk, and they obviously are happy to be drinking that breast milk. So let's not assume it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. I wouldn't assume that taking away the breast milk means that the child is hungry enough to then push through and force themselves to eat. They may just get more dysregulated. They may be even less likely to eat. So I mean, and I also think it does come down to parental choice at the end of the day, if that, if that parent is saying, I would like my child to have this expressed milk, you are the one that gets to call that and make that decision, and it's really up to the nursery to respect that choice. And if there's something going on with mealtime, let's explore what that is. Is there something you can do at home to support meals in the nursery setting? Do you bring food from home a little bit as a sort of transitional stage? But actually, it's your decision whether or not you bring pumped milk. And I tell you, it's definitely your decision as to whether you breastfeed. So if a childcare setting is telling you to limit breastfeeding, that is well outside their remit, that is not something they're able to do, and we don't have evidence that that automatically means a child eats more. The child clearly breastfeeds at home and eats at home. So we know the variable is not the breastfeeding, and it wouldn't be their right to ask you to less limit breastfeeding. 

Molly Morgan  08:43

totally agree with all of that. 

Emma Pickett  08:45

I think there's something going on in the nursery setting. It could be that it's too exciting. It's not necessarily a negative, you know, they're really stimulated. There's loads going on that, you know, they're just not getting down to eating food. But that needs to be the conversation. What's happening at mealtime, not let's take away the nutrition or nutritional source that we can rely on for sure. 

Emma Pickett  09:03

Okay, next question says, the few days my daughter has had reduced feeds so far have ended up with me being overly full and her being very sick when I put her to bed. So essentially, it sounds like this person is either preparing for going back to work or is already back at work not feeding as much during the day, and when they finally do feed their child, there's a lot of milk available. Is this normal? Is this a worry? I'm concerned about the days when I do, when she does start nursery, that she's going to be sick every night. Okay, so that is a kind of breastfeeding mechanic that's on your rabbit. Yeah, I'm happy to get started on that one. So it sounds like what's happening here is that this person is reducing their feeding and getting very engorged, and milk supply hasn't quite adjusted to that pattern. So when they do eventually feed on a very engorged breast, there's a very fast letdown. The baby's taking a large amount of milk in a very short period of time, and then is positing and being sick. I would say first of all. That sounds like a real pain. Sorry that you're going through that. But actually it's positing is not necessarily a major problem, other than you've got to change sheets and pajamas and it's a real hassle. But the main thing to say is that your body is going to adjust. So your body will get used to you having less demand during the day. If you go back to a regular working pattern when you're working in the day, your body's going to adjust to that. So you're not going to carry on with the same leveling of engorgement indefinitely. This is not going to be your life forever. You may find that after a holiday, you go back to being a bit engorged again and and it maybe she takes a bit more milk in the first few days after you've been on holiday. Might be on a weekend after a Monday, you know, Monday back at work, you might be a bit more full again, but overall, your body is going to adjust to that reduced demand in the day, and the engorgement is going to reduce, and it's not going to be permanent. So So A, it's normal to for a child to respond to engorgement with that and that fast let down by positing a bit more. But B, it's not going to go on forever. Your body is going to adjust. And breasts are really clever at getting a sense of what their demand pattern is and adjusting according to that demand pattern, and if it doesn't adjust, and if you know two weeks in you're still really struggling with engorgement, call the National Breastfeeding Helpline. They can help you think through what the scenarios are and what you could possibly do to change things. Yeah, perfect. But yeah, you'll be fine. Honestly, this is lots of people are in this set situation, and their body just adjusts. 

Emma Pickett  11:25

Okay? So it says my first is still nursing strong, and I was lucky to get two years off, off work, presumably my second child, I'm going to have to go back to work after six months. So I'm guess I'm going to have to figure out how pumping works. Help, says the questioner, it all seems such a minefield compared to the straightforward nature of my first so, yeah. So two years maternity leave, first time around, now she's got to go back to work after six months. That's obviously quite a change and emotionally difficult to prepare for. So what practical things does someone need to think about if they're going back to work at six months? 

Molly Morgan 12:02

So I think from the perspective of starting the childcare, you need to be having those conversations with the childcare provider, or, you know, it doesn't say, actually, does it, if it's nursery or family or who's having them, but just making sure that they're comfortable giving some expressed milk and maybe starting to get them used to taking express milk when they're not with you. I don't know about you, Emma, but in my experience, I find some breastfeeding mothers struggle to be the one to actually give the bottle or to give a cup of milk, because the baby's used to receiving it from the source with them, so maybe practicing them with another caregiver, having some bottles, and what we spoke about last time as well. You know, if they don't take a bottle, don't panic. Try an Open Cup, try a sippy cup, try whatever you need. But you know, trying to getting on board with them, it, taking express milk in whatever capacity, and then really making sure wherever they're going, child care wise, that they are comfortable and happy and informed. On storage of breast milk to make that an easy transition for you to keep giving them your milk.

Emma Pickett  13:06

Yeah, yeah. And in terms of pumping, it depends a little bit on what your natural storage capacity is. So every parent's a little bit different. Some people may need to express, you know, every three hours or so, some people, in a regular working day can get down to maybe just two pumping sessions. If they're working a nine to five, they might do a sort of 11 ish, 1130 ish, and a sort of two ish, three ish pumping session. Some people will need to do three pumping sessions in a working day. So it depends a little bit on what your storage capacity is. Also depends on how you get on with pumping and what your relationship is with your pump. Most people will get into a pattern where they will probably have a pump that they keep at work, if they're in a working environment and in an office environment, and they will be moving expressed milk backwards and forwards in an insulated bag with a freezer block. You don't necessarily have to have a fridge at work to store your milk. You could just put the milk straight into that insulated bag with a freezer block. It's fine for up to 24 hours in that setting. And then, if you're pumping more than once in the day, you don't have to wash and sterilize your pump every time in between pumping sessions. So it really is fine. It's fine to have breast milk at room temperature for up to six hours. We don't need to keep washing and sterilizing pumps if this is a healthy six month old. So what you could do is use your pump and then take the milky bits and again, put it in the same insulated bag with the freezer block to keep it cool. Take it out the next time, use it again. Maybe wipe it with kitchen paper again, put it back into the into the container. If that doesn't feel comfortable and you'd like to wash with hot, soapy water and dry it with paper towel. You absolutely can, but you don't need to sterilize every time. That doesn't seem necessary based on on healthy term babies. So you might be carrying your milk backwards and forwards with in that freezer bag and that. Or you might decide that you want to take the pump home as well and maybe do a pumping session in the evenings. Some people who are working parents like to do another pumping session once baby's gone to bed, just. A little bit of extra milk, because not everyone gets a huge amount when they pump. What you may find is that you pump more at the beginning of a week, when you've just been with your baby over the weekend, and maybe your pumping output tapers off a little bit towards the end of the week. If that does happen, don't panic. That isn't an unusual pattern, but overall, during the week, you'll have enough to meet your baby's needs. You might want to build up a little bit of a stash before you go back to work, just so you've got that cushion and that sort of safety net. But that doesn't mean hours and hours and days and days of pumping like bananas, but you might want to pump maybe for a couple of weeks before you go back, just so you've got a little bit of a of a cushion in case something goes wrong with your pumping, if your pumping output dramatically drops. Check your pump first. So is there something going with your valves? Do you need to replace the little, sort of duck valve if you've got a pump with a sort of soft silicon piece, don't assume it's necessarily your supply that's struggling. It could be something to do with your pumping. And there are some tricks to pumping. If you don't get great pumping outputs, there are exclusively expressing parents out there who can give you some great advice about visualization, about getting into the mental space, about watching your favorite TV programs, listening to music, not necessarily focusing on the anxiety of what you're getting out so if things aren't going well, do call one of the helplines or get in touch with your local peer support if you're if You're struggling with pumping babies, take roughly about 30 mils per hour. So that's one fluid ounce per hour. That's the kind of average intake. So a six month old who's away for eight hours would take eight lots of 30 mils. But they may not necessarily take a vast amount in the day. Even at six months, you may find that they do a lot of feeding when you're with them at the beginning and end of the day, or maybe feeding overnight. They might add in a couple of more night feeds. So if a baby's not consistently taking the equivalent of 30 mils every hour when you're separated, I wouldn't panic immediately, because they may just emphasize feeding at other times. And some parents actually like the reverse cycling. They like it when their baby feeds more overnight, because that's just convenient. It means less pumping in the day. And you might even find that you're supplied as a bit of a switch, so it produces less in the day. And that might work for you. That might be a nightmare the idea of that, or it might be something you look forward to. But you're not alone. There are lots of people who've gone back to work at six months. It is absolutely doable. The United States have higher breastfeeding rates than we do at 12 months, and the vast majority of people are going back to work a lot sooner than we are in the UK. People are going back to work in the States, you know, before three months, quite often, and making exclusive breastfeeding work. So it's absolutely doable. 

Molly Morgan 17:32

And I guess you can also look into whether it's possible to visit your baby during the day. Can you can you continue to feed while you're back at work. I know that's not logistically possible for everybody, but nurseries are often welcoming parents in to come in and breastfeed, or if they're not in a nursery, that that could also be an option if you're concerned about pumping.

Emma Pickett  17:51

Yeah, thank you for mentioning that. Really important, I think, to stress that that's absolutely doable, and a lot of people are working from home now, and there's a little bit of sort of hybrid working, so you may hopefully have a situation where you can do the lunchtime feed or the odd feed here and there, but even a very traditional nursery setting should be welcoming you to come in at lunchtime if that's an option. 

Emma Pickett  18:11

Okay. Next question says, I've just returned to work, and my one year old son attends nursery. He refuses milk when at nursery, even though I provided him bottles. I think that this is adding to him being very up and down at nursery. I'm not guessing that means kind of emotionally up and down.

Molly Morgan 18:28

So, I mean, we kind of touched on this already, didn't we, you know, have you thought about trying something other than a bottle? Have you thought about trying a cup or, you know, like a, like a water bottle? You know, he's, he's, he one year one years old, so he could absolutely try different mechanisms of taking milk, I wouldn't want to assume. But because he's not if he's eating well and he's age one, it might not actually be the contributing factor to him being up and down. It might just be that that's his temperament, and that's his personality, and he is just struggling a little bit to settle into nursery, I mean, and just struggling with that separation from You. And actually, he's not really interested in milk in any other capacity, because it's actually you he wants, not necessarily the milk.

Emma Pickett  19:18

Yeah, that's a good way of saying it. I think, um, I mean, I would just say that lots of people who have children going back to nurse at 12 months aren't actually giving milk anyway in the day, just because they know that bottles are not going to be accepted, and they know they're not going to drink milk if it's expressed into something else. So lots of 12 month olds are just drinking water and eating solids, yeah, but obviously, if you perceive that's why he's up and down, it's difficult for us to necessarily say that's not the case but, but I probably would agree with you, Molly, that it may be that this, there's a little bit of projection here, and an assumption that that's the problem, and if you're feeling tense about that, you might be then conveying that tension to the caregivers, who might then be being a bit more forceful in trying to give the bottles. And actually, what might be causing him to be up and down are these 10 minute episodes of somebody trying to force him to take a bottle, and that's possibly affecting his relationship with the caregivers and causing tension in those moments when the bottles are being tried, tried to be given. So maybe if you take the pressure off and you say, actually, don't worry about trying the bottles anymore, let's just put the milk in a cup. You know, let's just focus a bit more on having some of his favorite foods around. Let's just see what happens. And maybe if we take the tension out of those bottle attempts, you may find that he relaxes a bit more and things get a little bit more easy. But you really you don't need to give milk in the day if you are breastfeeding, especially, you can breastfeed at the beginning and end of the day, and that can be enough milk in total. But you may find that trying something a bit different, as you say, either a cup or even just not trying at all, see what happens. 

Molly Morgan  20:48

Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Just take the pressure off.

Emma Pickett  20:51

Next question says, How do we know a baby is getting enough milk, slash fluids? Should they be drinking intuitively, at this age? My 13 month old only has very small sips of water through the day, so we were relying primarily on nursing to keep him hydrated. Now, milk feeds are reducing as we adjust to the new schedule nursing before and after nursery and before bed. I was hoping she would learn to take more water at nursery to compensate, but this doesn't seem like it's happening, as nappies are much less wet and constipation has set in. 

Molly Morgan 21:24

Yeah, that sound, that sounds stressing, sounds really tricky. I think, from from the nursery perspective of this, I would say no, children of this age aren't really drinking intuitively. I don't know what you think about that, but in terms of water, you know, I still have to often remind sort of five, six year olds to make sure that they're having some water. The six year old I look after will often come out with a full water bottle, and she's like, No one told me to drink.

Emma Pickett  21:49

Some adults aren't great, exactly, and end up getting UTIs and all. I mean, there's something going on there in terms of survival. I don't think, I don't think even a 13 month old get to the point where they they literally collapse because of dehydration. No, but they can certainly stay at that level of under hydration, especially if they're, if they're distracted and interested in other things. 

Molly Morgan 22:09

And I'd wonder, you know, are, you know, it's hard for nursery staff to be prompting every single baby to be drinking all the time, but just like not putting too much pressure on but having that conversation with the staff, just so it can be on their radar that, you know, she is suffering with some constipation. So we know that she is slightly under hydrated. So have those conversations, you know, and they might just be able to prompt her more often than it might just be a case of, she needs a few more prompts to have sips, little and often. I mean, when I looked at the NHS website, roughly at this age, between 12 to 24 months, they recommend at least eight ounces of water a day. And you know, she's still having three breastfeeds a day, so that's going to keep her hydrated, in that sense. But, yeah, I just try and prompt them to do that a little bit more through the day to see if that helps.

Emma Pickett  22:55

Yeah. I mean, I think that this is actually coming down to nursery staff, isn't it? There's not much. It's not much you can do a parent can do other than ask the nursery star to be a bit more vigilant about it, and also just thinking about fruit and offering fruit and vegetables, which have high water content as well. If she's not, if she's not a big drinker, it might be that she needs to take the water in a different form, you know. And what's happening with the cup? Does she like the cup? Does she need a different one? Can she have a cup that's like a friend's cup. I'm just thinking a bit more creatively about Yeah, definitely, hopefully things will get easier. 

Molly Morgan  23:26

Yeah, great idea.

Emma Pickett  23:27

Next question says, What do I do when a 12/13, month old asks for a breastfeed the minute we pick up from nursery, sometimes to the point of being very upset if they don't get it straight away? What coping mechanisms could be tried to put in place to teach patients and delaying breastfeeding? Do you mind if I go first? 

Molly Morgan  23:45

Yeah. 

Emma Pickett  23:48

Okay. So 12/13, month old coming out of nursery desperate to breastfeed, and the parents saying, you know, what can I do to delay this? What can I do to teach patients? I'm going to be honest. You can't. 12/13, month old cannot learn patience, cannot learn to be delayed, cannot learn that. And you might choose to delay. You might choose to take them into different setting, but your child may still be dysregulated, because at 12/13 months, they cannot really have a ability to regulate their emotions if they see you and they go, Oh my God, it's she's here. It's breastfeeding time. Yay. It's breastfeeding time. The asking them to then cognitively go, oh, hang on. I recall now we're not allowed to breastfeed in this setting. We've got to wait until a different environment. I think that's that's just not quite going to be achievable at this age. I think it's going to be too difficult. So honestly, in the short term, and this is a tricky thing to say, but in the short term, if you can breastfeed on pickup, I would breastfeed on pickup, because actually, you want them to know that you're there for them. You want them to feel regulated as soon as you see them. You want that moment of reunion to be connected. And an outpouring of love, which is often connected to the literal outpouring of milk. And you want them to know that you're comfortable there. Because if you come into the setting and you go, Oh no, honey, we don't breastfeed here, they're going to pick up on this vibe of, why doesn't mummy like coming into nursery? Why doesn't mummy want to sit with me here? Why do we have to leave quickly? What's going on. Why isn't she happy here? And I think there's some subconscious messaging going on there that isn't super helpful. So I know it's hard when you're not comfortable feeding in public, and not everybody is. And you know, there are obviously individual stories here, but I would try and feed in response to their cues in that moment when they're asking to feed at the end of a nursery day, as they get a little bit older, and I'm talking about closer to 18 months, then I think you can maybe begin to say, My Love, you know, mummy would like to sit in a different chair, or I would like to, you know, let's go to the car, or let's wait till we get home. Here's a snack. You know, mummy, milk is waiting until we get home. You've got a better chance at around 18 months to begin to have those conversations, but I don't think you can have them at 12 months. No, I'm being quite blunt about Yeah, there might be someone listening to this is going, Hey, lady, how are you to tell me to breastfeed at nursery? I don't want to, but I do think you probably ideally would be for a child at this age. What's your gut feeling?

Molly Morgan 26:17

I totally agree with that. I think it's likely not even about the milk in that moment, like Emma said, it's, it's that overwhelm of emotion. My mummy's finally returned, like she's here, like so overwhelming, and it's about regulation. And we know, you know, in many other areas of children and child development, when they're in that point of dysregulation, there's no reason. And there's, there's nothing, there's, we're not going to achieve anything until they're regulated. You can't have that negotiation, like Emma said, when we're getting more towards 18 months to two years, those conversations can happen. But again, it's still unlikely to be successful in that moment if they're already dysregulated. Yeah, you can possibly do some practicing at home around distractions and delaying breastfeeding when they're already calm and content, and have those and practice those boundaries then, but in that moment, that's what will teach them, in that moment, in that dysregulated moment, it's unlikely to even get a reason with them 18 Months. And I totally appreciate not everybody's comfortable, but I'd first have the conversation with nursery, because if you know that they're comfortable, you're probably going to feel more comfortable doing that feed. If you would still not feel that comfortable. There's lots of parents around. Possibly. Is there a room within the setting that you can then go straight to something like that? Can baby be brought out to you in that room before you even go in there to pick them up. You know, making it more convenient and more comfortable for you is going to be the most productive thing to do. 

Emma Pickett  27:49

Yeah, then that's a great idea. If you know that this is making you feel anxious. And I'm guessing that is what's happening here. Because why? What else would you not want to feed it must be, you know, busy setting or, you know, they're literally in the entrance way and they're not feeling great about it. Solve that problem. Yeah, solve the solve the problem of why you're not feeling comfortable. And then that's what, that's going to be the solution. So if you can find another space, brilliant, that's what, what's that's what you're aiming for, even if that means talking to nursery staff and going back inside the building and finding somewhere else. But the solution being stopping the child's desire to breastfeed is going to be a tough place to show from,

Molly Morgan  28:26

 for sure,

Emma Pickett  28:29

A little advert just to say that you can buy my four books online. You've Got It In You, a positive guide to breastfeeding is 99p as an e book, and that's aimed at expectant and new parents. The Breast Book published by Pinter Martin is a guide for nine to 14 year olds, and it's a puberty book that puts the emphasis on breasts, which I think is very much needed. And my last two books are about supporting breastfeeding beyond six months and supporting the transition from breastfeeding. For a 10% discount on the last two, go to Jessica Kingsley Press. That's uk.jkp.com and use the code MMPE10, Makes Milk Pickett Emma 10. Thanks. 

Emma Pickett  29:16

Okay. Next question says, What does breastfeeding look like at the one year mark? I'll be going back to work four days a week, from 7am to 6:30pm and my son will be going to nursery. Will he manage on a feed before and after work? Or will I need to pump in the day at work at this stage and send breast milk with him to nursery? If so, how much should I pump to send with him? He's been exclusively breastfed since birth, and I've never known how much volume he drinks. Okay, so there's quite a few things going on there. That's quite a long working day. So 7am to 6:30pm if that is the working day, then that is obviously even longer away from the child we're. He manage on a feed before and after work? Or will I need to pump in the day at work? So I would say that I wish I could say, oh, yes, 12 months. Let me turn to my 12 months page. Yes, this, this is how many feeds he will have. This is how my many pumping sessions you will need to do. This is how much milk he will need. Unfortunately, there is a little bit of individual variation. So it's not possible to give a really clear answer on this, but let's assume that he is two years old, so 12 months old, he is doing reasonably well with solids. So he's having three meals a day. He's having a couple a couple of snacks a day, and when you're with him, you're breastfeeding responsively. If you go back to work at that point, I probably would expect you to need to pump in the working day. But that doesn't mean you have to give in the milk necessarily to take to nursery, but I would expect you to need to pump for comfort, because your body is used to fairly responsive feeding during a day, so I would probably schedule in at least one pumping session in the middle of the day. If you get really uncomfortable before that, you might want, you might want to schedule in a couple of sessions in the working day. If you're somebody who's been giving quite a large volume of milk, now, when you have done those pumping sessions, you're going to have milk. You might decide that, therefore, why don't I give it to the setting and see what happens? He might be up for drinking it out of a cup. I wouldn't recommend introducing a bottle at this point. We'll talk a bit more in a minute about that, but you might want to introduce it in a cup and just see if he's interested. But if he isn't, if he doesn't want to drink the milk in a cup at one year, that's not something to panic about. It's not a problem if he just eats solids and drinks water during the day, and yes, he could well manage on a feed before and after work. I would just say, though, that that is a long day. That's 7am to 630 and and it may be that he does need an extra feed somewhere in there as well. So I probably would be thinking quite carefully about what solids is he going to be offered? Is he drinking water confidently for a cup and maybe having a go with some milk in a cup, just because it is such a long day, it may also be that he needs an extra feed at night as well, and if he has been sleeping through without feeding, you might want to add in a sort of dream feed before you go to bed. So he's having those three feeds. Yeah, what would you add to that, Molly?

Molly Morgan 32:24

yeah, I think everything you said is spot on. Really, obviously, I don't know it from the breastfeeding mechanics in the sense that you do. One question I do actually have for you is a client of mine had her baby in nursery four days a week, so similar to this, and she said that after a while, because she was concerned about responsibly feeding on the days that he was then at home, and how that would affect her supply, and would she be, then be really engorged at work because she wasn't pumping, and she said that her boobs got used to the days that her child was at nursery and was not at nursery. Is that something that genuinely happened? 

Emma Pickett  32:59

Yeah, I have heard people tell me that? Yeah, I have heard people find it so interesting. I can't say I fully understand how that works, but that is not the first time I've heard someone say that. So, yeah, who knows? Yeah. I mean, it may be something about how, sorry. So you're not getting let down the working days, and you're getting let down on the non working days. So, so maybe there's milk around on the on the working days, it's just not being released in quite the same way. So it may be that there's production available, but just not being used. 

Molly Morgan  33:27

Yeah, I find it so fascinating. 

Emma Pickett  33:29

Yeah, it's the breasts are pretty clever.

Molly Morgan 33:31

Yeah. The The only other thing I would add is that nurseries generally supply cow's milk, or dairy free milk, and obviously, this child's over the age of one, so there isn't any pressure for the necessarily to be consuming your expressed milk, if, if you're comfortable with them having an alternative milk as well, that could also work. 

Emma Pickett  33:50

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. So, so when you say, will he manage on a feed before and after work? I guess it's we're not quite sure what you mean by that. Word manage. I mean that won't be enough nutrition for him, he's going to need to eat and drink something during the working day as well. But in terms of breast milk input that well, that could well be enough, but, but some people do need to express a little bit, even if it's just for comfort. And I've had some clients who actually don't even keep the milk. They're like, he's not going to drink it at nursery. I know he's not going to drink it. I'm not going to faff around carrying this on the tube, I'm actually going to pump for five minutes. I'm going to discard the milk, but I'm pumping for five minutes to protect my supply and for comfort reasons and to reduce leaking at work. So there are all sorts of options. You can always call a helpline to talk through your plans for working. So breastfeeding counselors and peer supporters are really up to having those conversations. So you know, do feel free to even go to a drop in group and say, right, can we just talk about my working week? You know, what should I? What should I start with in terms of my pumping? What pumps do you recommend? You know, does this going to work? And just see what seems sensible in that setting. I probably would suggest that you're breastfeeding just before you drop him off. And. Just because it's such a long day and again, on that is definitely going to be somebody who's ideally going to be breastfeeding in the nursery environment to get in those feeds. Before we go to the next question, let's talk a bit more about bottles. I said about not giving bottles at 12 months. So, and I know that can be hard to hear if somebody's bottles are really part of their life at 12, 1314, months, but ideally, the NHS recommendation is not to be giving bottles beyond 12 months for dental health reasons, primarily, what happens in when you're working with a family and there's, you know, a two year old still using bottles? I mean, do you just sort of go, it's, it's the parental choice, and therefore it's not my remit to talk about this. Or do you have settings where people are encouraged to move away from bottles?

Molly Morgan 35:44

I think it does completely vary. If I'm being brutally honest, I'm not quite sure that that education is filtering into nursery staffs for them to understand that that's something that could possibly be worked on. So in my experience, it's not something that's massively being pushed as a problem. And actually, rightly or wrongly, nursery staff are not going to make their lives harder. And if there's a child over the age of one having bottles, and it suits them to sleep and it comforts them, from their perspective, they're very unlikely to be telling you that that is a problem or shouldn't, shouldn't be happening, or that you should be working on that at all, which obviously is problematic slightly. But when I'm working one to one with clients, sleep wise, and there's children over the age of one having bottles, we're first looking at how often they're having those bottles, you know, particularly if they're falling asleep on the bottle. That's when the dental health things really do come into play. But we also think about, you know, why is an older child, say, age two, still heavily relying on a bottle, you know, is, is there something that we need to be looking at, you know, in terms of their regulation? Is there other ways that we can be putting that regulation in place to help them? You know, is there something going on orally, like, is their tongue not functioning in the way it should be? So they're really relying on that bottle? You know, that's a whole different conversation. But, yeah, I think nurseries should be gently encouraging. They should never be saying to a one year old or an over one to introduce a bottle, but I don't think they'll be saying much about those that already have the bottles. If that makes sense, yeah. 

Emma Pickett  37:28

No, that makes sense. I mean, it's a difficult balance, isn't it? Yeah. You know, we don't want to. You know, if parents just started childcare, you can imagine how grim it would be if someone says, oh, by the way, I've noticed that Bobby's having bottles. Let's talk about that. I mean, that's not cool, obviously. You know, parents continue using bottles for all sorts of complicated reasons, but somebody who's starting child care at 12 months, as you say, should, we should not be introducing bottles at sort of 10/11, months in preparation for child care. 

Molly Morgan 37:53

That's, that's when we should be looking at, and it's likely just a huge waste of time as well, because it does, it can often take a lot of effort for these children to accept bottles, and it's just not got longevity. So you know, getting them used to the cup makes much more practical sense. 

Emma Pickett  38:09

Yeah, yeah, thanks. 

Emma Pickett  38:11

Okay, so next question says Hand, Foot and Mouth, disease and nursery. So I think this person's a bit annoyed because they basically say in the question, most nurseries don't exclude children with hand, foot and mouth disease, but it can end breastfeeding journeys. What are your thoughts? Hand, foot and mouth disease can lead to nursing strikes quite commonly, I wouldn't say, every single time, but not unusual for there to be a nursing strike during an episode of Hand, Foot and Mouth Disease, just because the sores in the mouth just make somebody feel really uncomfortable when they're breastfeeding, and sometimes those nursing strikes might end up leading to the permanent end of breastfeeding, but I wouldn't say that's super likely. If a child is in an enthusiastic feeder, they'll normally come out of the hand, foot and mouth episode and want to resume breastfeeding, but it sounds like this parent is worried about that triggering the end of breastfeeding and a bit annoyed about nursery practice, but it's, it's my understanding that you're actually infectious before the onset of symptoms. So the idea of excluding somebody once they've already shown symptoms isn't, isn't super logical, because they've already been through that infectious period anyway. And that sounds really harsh, but actually, if nurseries excluded every child with Hand, Foot and Mouth Disease, we'd be having empty nurseries for a big chunk of time, and not necessarily making a huge amount of difference to transferring the disease around the room. What are your feelings? 

Molly Morgan 39:36

Well, from my perspective, and I don't know if you've come across this professionally, there's a lot of misunderstanding around nursing strikes, and I would be interested to know how many breastfeeding journeys have ended prematurely due to a temporary nursing strike and people thinking that that's the end of their breastfeeding journey. I have known babies where. That the mother has gone on holiday for two weeks, hasn't breastfed for two weeks. Baby's not been interested and come home and continued to breastfeed, or, you know, most commonly, a older toddler giving up breastfeeding during the mother being pregnant with the second child, because the milk's changed and everything's a bit different. And then when the mother gives birth, you know, six months later, going back to breastfeeding. So, you know, I think if you're worried about that and your child does have a bit of a nursing strike, just treat it as that a nursing strike, not the end of breastfeeding. Treat it as the same as, you know, if we have a sickness bug and we go off food for a few days, we're not off food forever. We just might need to then slowly reintroduce it again. 

Emma Pickett  40:44

Yeah, yeah. I have an article about nursing strikes in older babies, and I'll put that in the show notes. Yeah, nursing strikes are scary because you can, you can feel this real, profound sense of rejection. It can really leave a parent emotionally very wobbly. But if there is a clear trigger, and the trigger is Hand, foot and mouth disease, and that child has that underlying desire and love for breastfeeding, there is every chance they will resume breastfeeding again at the end. And if they didn't, I wonder whether maybe they were on a self weenie journey anyway, and maybe they were beginning to wind down in their interest around breastfeeding. It's how we respond emotionally is quite important. So staying calm, staying positive, thinking of the breast as being still, the home and the place of comfort, not putting a lot of pressure on the child. Obviously, we want to offer pain relief and want to do what we can to keep them comfortable as well, and that might sometimes help them feed a little bit, but yeah, I think the main thing is not to panic. It's not an unusual situation to have a nursing strike at this time, and that every chance that they will come out of it, yeah.

Molly Morgan 41:46

And you could always, you know, freeze a bit of breast milk into some lollies, some iced lollies or something, because then that kind of makes you feel more connected, maybe in that sense as well. And they're still getting a bit of breast milk, and it might relieve the pain for them. 

Emma Pickett  42:01

Yeah, yeah. But as I said, it is one of those diseases where once the symptoms have arrived, that's it's not like you're protecting the little person who sat next to them yesterday that they you are infectious before the onset of there's a lot of myths around Foot and Mouth season. So you know you're not infectious until the sores have burst. Or I saw that, saw that. Saw someone say that on social media yesterday. I was like, no, no, you're infectious before, before anything happens, and especially in the very early stages, yeah. But if you have been dealing with Hand, Foot and Mouth Disease, my sympathies, because it is not, not fun. No, okay, you've got some questions as well. Molly, should we look at your list? 

Molly Morgan 42:37

Yeah, so I've just got, I've kind of picked out three main questions to kind of summarize the general questions that were coming in. One of the questions that stood out to me was that she describes her baby as a Velcro baby, and asked if nursery or a childminder is usually better, but then has also said that they're very sensitive and higher needs. So we touched on this before. I don't know if this baby is breastfeeding or not, or if it's related to that, but it's just likely that that's their temperament is not due to the fact that you breastfeed them, and actually it depends on the nursery setting. If it's a big nursery, a high need, sensitive child's going to struggle. In that sense, a child mind is home based. So it could be that their temperament is more suited to that, but I would just go and visit loads of settings and see what you know your baby's temperament and see what you think they would settle in best with. Generally speaking, it might be childminders, but there are some really nice, small, cozy, homeless style nurseries as well.

Emma Pickett  43:38

Yeah. And just to remind me the ratios at the moment that we're talking about. So if someone is looking after a baby or under two year old, the ratios for a child minder will be the same as the ratios in a nursery. 

Molly Morgan 43:52

It is the same, but it gets a little bit more complex, because a lot of childminders are Soul Charge working, and they've not got any other people with them, and they'll also have a mixture of age ranges, they're likely going to end up on a smaller ratio, because for an under two, the ratio is one to three, one adult to three children. In a child minding setting, if you have one child that's under two and the rest are older, you still have to abide by that one to three ratio. So it's very likely that the child minder setting will have smaller ratios. If that makes sense?

Emma Pickett  44:27

Yeah, that makes sense, yep. So yeah. I mean, I think you know, ideally that one to one care is the is the ideal for any child. But there are also children that thrive in, you know, slightly different setting and slightly different ratio. So as you say, it's really hard to make blanket rules about this. Yeah, I think you've also got to find a place where you feel like you connect with the adults, and your communication with the adults feels comfortable and you feel listened to. If you're worried that your child has high needs, you really need to have that strong dialog available. And also, there. Need to be able to tell you how things are going so you can feel reassured. But I think your first point at the beginning that being a Velcro baby is not about being a breastfed baby. That is one of the biggest myths that I hear all the time, that you've contaminated your baby by breastfeeding them somehow, and if you didn't breastfeed them, they'd be this super independent jar going off, you know, to boarding school by themselves at two years old. We're meant to be attached to our caregivers. We're meant to have a lovely attachment. We're meant to feel a bit uncomfortable about going to nursery and going to be with other people. If your child is not happy on their first day at nursery and they're a little bit unsettled, congratulations, because that means you've, you know, you've probably done something right? It takes time. It's not going to happen automatically. There'll be moments when they feel happy and moments when they don't feel happy, because that's a normal day. You know, do any of us feel 100% happy all day long? So even the loveliest nursery in the world, there may be moments at the beginning when things are hard, and there are maybe moments later on when things are hard and they may be tearful when they see you. And that doesn't mean it wasn't a lovely nursery. 

Molly Morgan 46:02

And I often hear, you know, of people that actively end their breastfeeding journeys in order to prepare for nursery because, you know, they're really worried about their child being too clingy to them and and I sort of say, well, you know, figuratively speaking, if you're the mother on maternity leave with this baby, and you think, okay, I need to stop breastfeeding to get them ready for nursery, and you start feeding them from a bottle. You're still the one doing the feeding, and you know they're still with you all day. So with all the will in the world, it's not about how they're fed, it's about their attachment to you. And even a baby that's been bottle fed from day one, if you're the one at home with them all day every day, they're going to be just as attached to you as if, as if you were breastfeeding them like that. That is just how attachment works.

Emma Pickett  46:57

Yep. And you can have bottle fed babies who have Velcro babies 100% Yeah, bottle fed babies that are crying at the nursery door, just like a breastfed

Molly Morgan 47:05

and as a childcare professional, you cannot tell the difference between the attachments of the babies that are breastfed and bottle fed. You know, we don't think, oh, gosh, that baby's crying over there must be a breastfed baby. That's not how it works. You know that my current nannying role, I've had her soul charge from six months old, and she has always been exclusively breastfed, and she's one of the easiest babies I've ever had, because that was her temperament. 

Emma Pickett  47:32

Yeah, yeah, you just certainly reminded me of a mum I spoke to in the early days of being a breastfeeding counselor absolutely broke my heart, and she basically ended breastfeeding because she wanted her child to miss her less. And she actually used that word, she said, I don't want him to miss me. So I've I've been a little bit colder, and I've stopped breastfeeding, and we're not cuddling as much.

Molly Morgan  47:56

Oh gosh,

Emma Pickett  47:58

I feel awful to saying it. And she and I was a real challenge for me as a breastfeeding counselor, actually, because, you know, my instinct was to go, No, yeah, don't stop cuddling him. No, sorry. I've just messed up the levels horribly on the recording there, she actually said, I'm being a little bit colder with him. I'm being a little bit more aloof. I'm not we're not being as cuddly because I don't want him to miss me.

Molly Morgan 48:20

Oh, that's heartbreaking. It's really heartbreaking. 

Emma Pickett  48:23

And that's just so so sad. And, you know, she obviously thought she was doing the best thing, and that came from a place of desperation, but it really shows how people don't get information. No, that's accurate. They don't get biologically normal information. 

Molly Morgan 48:38

It shows that the narrative is just so attacking of women all the time, and you know, so much blame and pressure is put on women to have their baby be a certain way, and have their baby be ready for this separation before they're they're ready, and it's so unfair that breastfeeding takes the brunt of that blame, because it's nothing to do with it.

Emma Pickett  49:05

Yeah, it's so toxic, isn't it? There's this weird message of, you know, you've got to have a beautiful relationship with your child. They've got to be open with you and communicate with you. And they're a teenager, and they they come downstairs and talk about their day and yeah, but yet, they've got to be really independent when they're one, you know, 12 months old, and they've got to not be sad if you leave them and if they cry for you, you've done something wrong. And if they miss you, you know, what's the wrong with you love why you know? Why have you created a child that won't just run through the door to nursery? So you cannot win? No, you can't. Literally, you're being set up to fail either way. But I think the message I give is that if they've got a really strong attachment with you. It's going to be hard to start nursery, and it's going to be hard for you too, yeah, or even the loveliest nanny or childminder, there'll be moments when you feel a pang and there'll be moments when they feel a pang and and that's how it's meant to be. And that doesn't mean you've done anything wrong. That means that you've got a beautifully attached child. 

Molly Morgan 49:58

And I think women need to be. Be so cautious and aware now, now that this funding is coming in for babies to be at nursery from a lot younger, I'm worried about the pressures that's going to put on women, and I'm worried about the pressures that that workplaces are going to put on women. You know, you you have to know that if, even though that funding is available from nine months old in a lot of places, that's not your deadline you are that does not tell you what you're entitled to, or what you or how long you should be leaving your baby for. If you do not want your child to attend childcare at nine months old, you do not have to, just because the funding is available to do so, and nobody has any right to put that pressure on you. 

Emma Pickett  50:42

Yeah. And ideally you should be in an environment where you can ask for flexible working. You can be able to, you know, do hybrid working. You should be able to, you have the right to ask for flexible arrangements, even though it may not necessarily happen, yeah. You know, not everyone has the option. Some people are going to have to go back to work full time. You know, even under six months, I spoke to someone the other day who had their own business and she was going back to work full time at back to work full time at four months. But there are people who are out there to support you and to answer your questions and to help you make breastfeeding work, if that's something that's important to you, yeah, definitely. What the questions have you got, Molly?

Molly Morgan 51:13

So the last one, because a lot of them, were about, you know, stopping breastfeeding in time for nursery. And the last one I had was a 10 month old refusing solids because they're teething. They refuse bottles and cups. Will he be okay for 8.5 hours?

Emma Pickett  51:27

Okay? Eek, so I guess teething is temporary, isn't it? Yes, let's hope that's the case. If a 10 month old went to nursery and they didn't take any solids, and they didn't drink from a cup and they didn't drink from a bottle. No, they wouldn't be okay for it. 

Molly Morgan 51:43

I'm not sure if they're taking water or if they're talking about just milk, but no, I think you'd have to definitely consider being flexible if they're going through that teething phase, and what you can do to be there for them through that period.

Emma Pickett  52:02

Yeah. I mean, some people actually get a horrible shock and realize that they might have to delay going back to work by a month or so. Or, you know, use up leave or ask, they ask their employer if they can work shorter days. It might be inconceivable to have that conversation with your boss, but if you say, Listen, I can't do an eight hour day. I'm sorry. They're just not, you know, at the moment, taking anything from a cup or a bottle. So I'm going to do, you know, shorter days, and that's where it is, and might do a bit more work in the evenings, but, you know, you just have to have a practical conversation. Because realistically, a child at that age is going to have to take something, yeah, point five hours. But I would say that that it's possible to be a 10 month old and really not have taken off with solids, yes, and start nursery. So So I know we had that conversation earlier about the 18 month old that relied on milk. That's not so common, but it's certainly not unusual for a 10 month old to just be grazing here and there on solids, but not really eating an enormous amount and taking quite a lot of milk into nursery. That's doable if you need to do that. So I wouldn't be so panicked about the solids. I wouldn't you know if your child is eight, nine months, they're not really getting off the ground with solids, and you're really starting to worry. Don't put lots of pressure on just to see what happens. Some children don't seem to kick in with solids until, you know, they get to a year or so, and that can be normal. If you are really worried about their solid intake, then, you know, have a chat to your health visitor, or go and have a look at Stacey's account, feed, eat, speak on Instagram, because she's she's great, and there are some other Instagram accounts that will help you, you know, get solids off the ground if you are concerned. But I wouldn't be overly worried if at 10 months, a child hasn't quite got to got to grips with solids yet, definitely.

Molly Morgan  53:43

Yeah. 

Emma Pickett  53:44

I mean, I guess if they're in pain with solids, to the extent they're not feeding at all, that's sorry if they're in pain with teething, the extent they're not feeding at all, that might be a bit of a worry. I might just check there's nothing else going on, or they don't have an ear infection, or there isn't something else happening, but as long as they're still breastfeeding, that's that's not necessarily a big problem. Definitely. Okay, right? So that was our list of questions. Yes, I'm sure there are many more that can be, that can be flying around. I think, I think one of the main messages I would give anybody who's starting childcare with a breastfeeding child is that the childcare settings there for you, it's actually yours. It's actually a service. It's a service that you're using, and they are a service provider, yeah, so they're not the boss of how you parent. And the really good childcare providers would be very happy to hear me say that and go, Gosh, of course not. No, no. You know, it's not super easy to have conversations with dozens of different families, but we're going to try our best, and we're going to try and make sure your child's individual needs are being met so you don't have to change what you're doing. They come to meet you, 

Molly Morgan 54:50

yeah, and you're you're the you're the expert on your child. You know, if they're telling you, like in that previous question, you need to reduce the amount of express milk they're having. You. You don't you are the expert. You know what your child needs, and as long as it's within the realms of their possibility of their day, you be assertive and know your rights. Yeah,

Emma Pickett  55:10

and it's being assertive in the sort of lovely, kind polite way that also most of us, most of us, know what how to do. I guess actually one thing I would like to just address before we finish that conversation we had about the 13 month old feeding at the end of the nursery day, and how, you know, ideally you should go into a room and find somewhere you feel comfortable. I have had a couple of stories of the opposite, where somebody was being asked to not feed their older child. So somebody breastfeeding a sort of three year old, or, you know, even older someone was saying, you know, do you mind if we if you don't do that anymore, right? And if you're in that position where someone is talking to you like that, that's that is really sticky and uncomfortable, because you're right up against the sort of prejudices around breastfeeding older children, yeah, if you have that conversation with a nursery setting, that's when you do have to be the advocate for your child. If you if you are comfortable breastfeeding, and you want to carry on breastfeeding, you have every right to do so, and your child needs you to be brave and come and find you know, come and find me on Instagram. Throw some ideas around. We can think about some language that maybe you'd use with that nursery setting, but you have the right to breastfeed your child for as long as you want to in any place where you are allowed to be with your child

Molly Morgan  56:25

exactly that - know the law,

Emma Pickett  56:27

yeah, yeah. And you should not have to restrict it for any anyone else's comfort. You should be able to breastfeed for as long as you want to 100% Thank you very much for your time today, Molly, much appreciated. As always,

Molly Morgan  56:40

you are very welcome. 

Emma Pickett  56:41

I'm not entirely joking when I say I might hopefully see you again, because no, definitely some more questions coming in at some point, because this is such an important time for people. Yeah, really appreciate it absolutely.

Molly Morgan  56:51

You're very welcome. It's lovely to chat to you. 

Emma Pickett  56:58

Thank you for joining me today. You can find me on Instagram at Emma Pickett IBCLC and on Twitter @MakesMilk. It would be lovely if you subscribed because that helps other people to know I exist. And leaving a review would be great as well. Get in touch if you would like to join me to share your feeding or weaning journey, or if you have any ideas for topics to include in the podcast. This podcast is produced by the lovely Emily Crosby Media.