Summer holiday replay - Making the decision to wean

This summer bonus episode is a replay of episode 2, where I explore why you might want to end breastfeeding/chest feeding. I discuss the misleading advice that some parents receive, the societal pressures, and the guilt that you may be feeling, but also the autonomy that you can have to make this decision for yourself and your family.

I’m taking a break over the summer holidays, and replaying a few of my most popular episodes. I’ll be back with a brand new episode on 3rd September 2024.

My new book, ‘Supporting the Transition from Breastfeeding: a Guide to Weaning for Professionals, Supporters and Parents’, is out now.

You can get 10% off the book at the Jessica Kingsley press website, that's uk.jkp.com using the code MMPE10 at checkout.

Follow me on Twitter @MakesMilk and on Instagram  @emmapickettibclc or find out more on my website www.emmapickettbreastfeedingsupport.com

Resources mentioned in this episode -

Online -

@Feedeatspeak (Stacy Zimmels on Instagram)

Nourishing the Mother podcast – Bridget Wood and Julie Tenner 

Drugs in Breastmilk Service in the UK (https://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/detailed-information/drugs-in-breastmilk/). 

Other services available include the Drugs and Lactation Database (LactMed) and the InfantRisk center led by Dr Thomas Hale.

Books - 

Adventures in Tandem Nursing – Hilary Flower

Taking charge of your fertility – Toni Weschler

Why breastfeeding grief and trauma matter – Amy Brown

The book you wish your parents had read (and your children will be glad that you did) – Philippa Perry

Articles - 

Articles on breastfeeding and sub-fertility – Carol Smyth IBCLC

Position Statement on the Shared Caregiving of the Breastfed Child – Breastfeeding for doctors

This podcast is presented by Emma Pickett IBCLC, and produced by Emily Crosby Media.

Transcript

Emma Pickett

I hope you are out there having a very lovely August wherever you are. I'm taking three weeks off from producing new episodes to give myself a little bit of a break and to give my lovely producer Emily a break as well. I will be back in September with brand new episodes that are already being prepared. Until then please enjoy one of my most popular episodes from the last few months.

Hi. I'm Emma Pickett, and I'm a lactation consultant from London. When I first started calling myself Makes Milk, that was my superpower at the time, because I was breastfeeding my own two children. And now I'm helping families on their journey. I want your feeding journey to work for you from the very beginning to the very end. And I'm big on making sure parents get support at the end. So join me for conversations on how breastfeeding is amazing. And also, sometimes really, really hard. We’lll look honestly and openly about that process of making milk. And of course, breastfeeding and chestfeeding are a lot more than just making milk.  

So today, we're going to talk about making the decision to wean. When I say weaned, by the way, I'm talking about ending breastfeeding, I'm not talking about starting solids. How do you know when you're really ready to stop breastfeeding? How do you know when you need to stop breastfeeding? It's not always easy. You are giving up on something that has been really special. It has been your magic parenting swiss army knife, it does so many things. Are you ready to give that up forever? Are you ready to travel without it? To help a child who's having a meltdown to help a child get to sleep? Are you ready to support a child who is ill maybe has a high temperature and isn't eating winnings go going to mean saying goodbye to all of that. How do you know you are ready to say goodbye to all of that. I'm going to guess that you are somewhere on a spectrum because most people thinking about weaning are on the spectrum. At one end, there are parents saying I've thought about this a lot. I've had support to think about it. I am absolutely done with breastfeeding. And I need some information about how to go about that. Or you might be at an end that says I love breastfeeding. I don't want to stop breastfeeding. My child does not want to stop. I just don't like how things feel at the moment. I don't feel I have control of my life, something has to change. Or you might be thinking I have a problem, which I don't know how to solve, but stopping breastfeeding might work. When someone asks for help about making the decision to win, I often talk about a magic wand. If I could give you a magic wand right now, and you waive it and you never have to breastfeed again. How would you feel? Imagine that your child is okay with it. They're not going to be distressed at all. They're not remotely bothered. But you never breastfeed again from this moment. Would you take that magic wand? Some parents will respond with Oh Good god, yes, give me a magic wand right now. And other people will hesitate and think Hold your horses. I'm not sure how I feel about that I'm really not sure that we're ready. Let's imagine that you say I'm certain that you would take that magic wand. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a space to do some further thinking and further reflection and thinking could be useful. You might have made that decision grounded on something that isn't necessarily based in fact, so we just need to double check, we need to future proof this decision because you're going to be looking back on this in years and decades to come. We do not want you to look back with any regret. So some mums say I'm sure and I don't want to talk about any further. And then actually when you explore it with them, you find out that they're actually a bit worried that they might talk themselves out of it. And actually they are wavering, you might be stopping breastfeeding because you've been told that a medication you have to start taking is not compatible with breastfeeding. You might have been told you have to stop to undergo medical treatment. Unfortunately, time and again parents are told that they have to stop breastfeeding in order to start a medication and they've been given false information. So Wendy Jones if you're not familiar with her, she is the leading figure in the UK when it comes to breastfeeding and medication. She's a pharmacist, she's an MBE. She founded the Drugs and Breastmilk Service which the Breastfeeding Network run. She also does independent work as well. She says in most cases, there are options to support the mother's optimal care whilst allowing her to continue to breastfeed her baby as long as she wishes. It is incredibly rare that somebody does have to end breastfeeding in order to get medical treatment. So I mentioned the drugs and breast milk service which she helped to found found that still exists today run by a team of pharmacists who are specially trained to talk about breast milk and breastfeeding. You can contact them through the Breastfeeding Network, you can message them through their Facebook page. You can also send them an email as well. Professionals and parents are welcome to contact that service. You can talk to them about more than one medication you can talk to them about in drug interactions. There's also on the Breastfeeding Network page, some fact sheets that give you information drugs as well. But if you're making the decision about whether to and breastfeeding, you probably want a more specialist, personalised answer to your questions. Outside the UK, we've also got the Drugs and Lactation database known as LactMed. We've also got the Infant Risk Centre led by Dr. Thomas Hale. There are people out there who can help you to make this decision with the right information. 

I'm afraid to say that sometimes parents have already said goodbye to breastfeeding or chest feeding in their minds. And they may be shocked to hear that their doctor didn't necessarily have accurate information. It's not entirely their fault. Often manufacturers will be very wary of liability, they will simply say this is not breastfeeding compatible. Or they will say it's down to the doctor as to whether you start this medication and the doctor can't find reliable information to suggest it is compatible. You know, trials cost money. Doing a trial on breastfeeding and test feeding parents and pregnant parents is a greater risk. So lots of manufacturers who make drugs or market drugs are simply not going to bother. So we often do have to seek out the specialist pharmacist in order to get the correct answer to this question. Sometimes doctors are telling us to stop breastfeeding or to take medication and the actual medication itself is licenced to give to babies directly. So even though the medication isn't licenced, for breastfeeding, the medication itself is safe for babies when it's given to them to rally. Quite often when someone's told they can't breastfeed and take a medication, a different medication can be found, or the original medication may well be safe, or breastfeeding only needs to stop temporarily. Unfortunately, lots of health professionals will simply say to a parent Yeah, you just you know take this medication, you must take this medication stop breastfeeding, and they may not be aware of why breastfeeding is a significant significant for two particular family they may not realise why it really matters, they may not realise the role breastfeeding has to play in family life. They may request that breastfeeding is paused or stopped entirely in order to minimise all perceived risk without realising that stopping breastfeeding actually brings a different kind of risk.

You may have been told that you need to stop breastfeeding in order to get pregnant again. Or you may believe that you need to stop breastfeeding in order to increase your fertility. And that's your only option. This is not true. For most people. Most people will return to full fertility while they're breastfeeding. So the menstrual cycle returns on average at around 14.6 months postpartum. But everyone's different. So there's a lot of individual variation when it comes to this. So they'll actually have a quote on their website and their article about fertility and they say some mums find that once their baby stopped sleeping for longer spells at night, or if they're separated in daytime for instance, through return to work outside the home. This is enough to reduce the effect that breastfeeding has on reducing oestrogen levels, so that their bodies can start to menstruate again. Others find that while their baby is still nursing a tall, there seems to be enough to suppress menstruation completely. There is a huge range of experience here. But for most people, you don't need to fully end breastfeeding it really is only a small minority for whom that's the case. So Hilary Flower has written an amazing book called Adventures in Tandem Nursing. Adventures in Tandem Nursing is the book if you are pregnant and breastfeeding or if you want to get pregnant and continue breastfeeding. She says that tinkering, what a good word, tinkering with breastfeeding patterns is often what all you need to do to achieve the desired effect rather than completely when is important to note. That just because you are bleeding regularly, that doesn't necessarily mean you have full fertility. So it is possible to have a menstrual cycle without ovulation. Or it's possible to have a menstrual cycle with a short luteal phase. So your luteal phase is the gap between ovulation and day one of your next cycle so the onset of bleeding the beginning of your next cycle. Now if that luteal phase is too short, if that gap between ovulation and the next period is too short, that could mean you don't build up enough of the hormones you need to suppress the onset of your next period. So you might can potentially conceive but then not have a pregnancy being established. So short luteal phase it's not necessarily 100% clear what a short phases but if your luteal phase is 10 days or less, that could be a barrier a barrier to full fertility. So it may be that a little bit of tinkering extends that luteal phase and you don't necessarily need to fully on breastfeeding. So obviously, to know this stuff to understand, you know what your cycle is doing. You're going to need to be confident about the signs of ovulation and a book like taking charge of your fertility. It's a good book to have when you want to start looking into this. I'd also recommend articles by Carol Smyth IBCLC, that's Smyth with a y, SMYTH. She has written some great articles on breastfeeding and subfertility that can help you to understand what's going on, it is important to do your research because, again, we've got to future proof this decision, you know, if you're ending breastfeeding for the hope of a future child, and you actually don't want to end breastfeeding, your motivation in in that parent led weaning situation is going to be really tough, you know, imagine supporting your child through their distress, when you actually don't want to resist feeding, you know, imagine it's two o'clock in the morning, they're asking for a feed, you're holding this boundary for some future aspirational hope of conception. And actually, you really, really wish you didn't have to do that. So, you know, let's check that that really is necessary. Let's do our research around fertility and conception. And really check this as needed. And also talking about if you're somebody who needs assisted conception, so maybe if you're returning to a fertility clinic for a second time round, you might be told that it's a requirement that you end breastfeeding, this is not uncommon for parents to be told this. And again, this is a really painful time, because you are giving up something concrete that really matters to you. I currently breastfeeding your current child for the hope of a future family, you may feel that you do have to end breastfeeding to maximise your chance of successful conception. But this may not necessarily be based on the latest evidence. There's a brilliant Facebook group called Breastfeeding moms undergoing fertility treatments / IVF. Really great source of information, you can't join that group. By the way, unless you are in this situation. It's not for people just to look, I interviewed its founder, Ali Thomas, for my previous book Supporting Breastfeeding Past the First Six Months and Beyond . Yep, shameless book reference. But she provided me with a brilliant interview. Lots and lots of detail that's in Chapter Nine of that book - Getting pregnant again. So don't assume that to have assisted conception, you necessarily have to end breastfeeding.

You might be preparing for a return to work. And you find it really hard to imagine combining breastfeeding with work life, you might be hoping the ending breastfeeding will mean a less disturbed night's sleep. So it is really important that we share the evidence on that. You might think you know, I absolutely cannot survive with this current sleeping pattern when I go back to work. You know, that really could be a legitimate fear, but you don't necessarily know until you try. And the idea that ending breastfeeding guarantees a full night's sleep is a little bit dodgy, you might actually end up having a child who wakes up, but actually takes longer to transition between sleep cycles or longer to resettle. Because breastfeeding is incredibly efficient. It does, essentially give your child a dose of some sedatives and helps them get back to sleep quickly. And also you receive oxytocin, which actually helps you to get back to sleep as well. So it's not necessarily guarantee that that ending breastfeeding is going to help everyone get better sleep, you might want to explore just night weaning rather than fully ending breastfeeding, I'll do a separate episode on night weaning doesn't necessarily mean you have to fully wean, if that's not something you want to do. And lots of countries when a parent returns to work, there are clear laws in place that protect their lactation systems and policies. You know, they have specific rights for expressing breaks. But in some other countries like the UK, when you return to work, you can sometimes feel a bit like a pioneer, you may be lacking in protection, you may not have a clear pathway, you may not have clear mentors, don't assume that the baby in front of you now is the baby you will be leaving, when you go back to work. I don't mean you're going to have a different baby, I mean that your baby's going to get older, they're going to eat differently, they're going to they might be more enthusiastic about solid foods, their nursing patterns may have changed. You know, if you're thinking now, you know, my baby's four months old, I'm gonna go back to work at eight months, I'm gonna have to wait six months, that is not necessarily making a decision based on full information from as young as eight or nine months. I've spoken to a mum this week who did this really successfully. Your baby does not necessarily need milk during a working day. So it is possible to breastfeed in the morning, breastfeed them on pick up breastfeed them maybe at bedtime maybe once overnight. And they're absolutely fine. They do not have to drink bottles of milk when you're not with them, you do not necessarily have to express when you're not with them. You know they need to be pretty decent at solids by eight, nine months for that to work. They need to be able to drink water independently. But you really don't have to go through the whole rigmarole of expressing and shipping bottles backwards and forwards. It really is possible to return to work with that your baby as young as eight nine months and make breastfeeding work easily alongside that. Sometimes, young babies even younger than eight or nine months will also continue breastfeeding happily and reverse cycles so they might feel a little bit more when you're with them potentially feeling a little bit more overnight. That might be a nightmare to some people to other people that actually might be something that they welcome and even cherish. If you're co sleeping. You're hardly even awake when you're breastfeeding. You really not me don't mind a bit of reverse cycling. So older babies, if they're decent with their solids, they really can drink water and eat solids when they're separated from their parents. And returning to work and breastfeeding works all around the world. I mean, actually, you know, the United States doesn't have as much maternity leave as we have in the UK, they have far better breastfeeding rates than we have in the UK, it really is possible to make breastfeeding and the return to work compatible. 

Some people think that the breastfeeding, they will make life easier for the person that's caring for their baby, you know, maybe their child might even miss them less. But actually, we've got to lean into the fact that a child who is well attached, if you've done your job, right, they are going to miss you, whatever is coming out of your nipples or whatever is not coming out of your nipples. You know, the role of a parent going back to work is not to sneak away and hope that no upset occurs. But to kind of expect a child with a healthy meaningful attachment to have a sense of loss when you're away from them. And that's not about breastfeeding. That is that is a normal experience for a child who is connected to their primary caregiver. You cannot remove that sense of loss from them by not breastfeeding. You cannot diminish your relationship with them in order to make their relationship with someone else easier. If you lean in to being the mother you want to be and absolutely make the most of all your maternity leave breastfeed for as absolutely as long as you want to. You're going to fill your baby, fill your baby's mummy cup, as it were filled them up with that, that mummy love. Yup, you're going to be missed. But your child is going to be reconnected with you at the end of the day and that magic way. And actually, you know, that reconnection feed that breastfeeding, once you're reunited, is super special. That's something that lots of working parents really, really come to value. You know, a well attached child can go on to make relationships with other adults in a way that is really positive. They understand that different adults care for them in different ways. You know, they don't all have working nipples, they'll help them get to sleep in a different way. They'll use different caring tools, you know, you're the person who looks after your child may well have been caring for children professionally for many, many years. So you cannot pretend to be that caregiver by depriving your child of the special skills that you have, you know, you can't rehearse being somebody else. So the idea that, you know, I can't feed my child for a nap anymore, because I've got to pretend to be somebody else just isn't really a great way to approach the end of breastfeeding. You know, your child and their new caregiver is going to have a different experience that you are not part of and they are going to be just fine. And it is amazing how many breastfeeding moms say to me, I don't know how nursery do it or I don't know how my nanny does it, but they just seem to be able to get them to sleep. And I absolutely can't do that I'm still feeding to naptime. I'm still feeding at bedtime, and it's just working my baby, my toddler is able to just adapt when I'm not around. If you've only got limited leave at home. Honestly, it seems a shame to fill the last few weeks with kind of rehearsing for returning to work. It's really understandable because you may be feeling anxious about going to work but there is a real balance between preparation that's useful, and also making the most of bonding time that you have. You know, breastfed toddlers have been napping happily in nurseries and with grannies since grannies were wearing furs and living in caves. And I'm not just talking about the grannies that are also lactating. That's a separate conversation. Sometimes it is the grannies and the other family members who are putting pressure on for breastfeeding to end. So you might be thinking about ending breastfeeding, because dealing with the crap from other family members is just really getting a bit too much. In the UK in our communities, you know, we do have historically low breastfeeding rates, you know, the older population and sometimes even younger family members who struggled to breastfeed and reach their goals. They've got a lot of baggage. They may even be traumatised by a sense of failure around their own breastfeeding experience. And sometimes they're subconsciously looking to validate their own choices. You know, sometimes the grannies that don't make breastfeeding work or even more determined to help the next generation reach their feeding goals. But I'm sad to say that's not always the case. I mean, it has been absorbed into the bones of lots of UK grandparents that good babies, good in inverted commas, sleep long intervals, don't feed for comfort, sleep independently, and then when they see a biologically normal baby who's fitting for connection and, you know, doing all the normal things that we would expect us to do because of evolution, you know, they may subconsciously be feeling that their own parenting choices are being judged. They might want you to copy what they did. They might want you to copy scheduled feeds and even bottle feeling to feel validated. Again, that could be happening on a subconscious level. They may have had no exposure to any decent scientific information about normal baby behaviour or the value of breast milk And you may be suffering because of that the criticisms that you're getting for continuing to breastfeed could be coming from really quite a deep place for some of these people that are talking to you. 

Truthfully, your family may legitimately be worried about you. And I'm really sorry, if that is the case, maybe you are overwhelmed. You might even be suffering with depression or other mental health issues. And maybe your family perceives that breastfeeding itself is the cause. But I guess the question is, do you see it as the cause? You know, do you really want to stop breastfeeding, as far as you're concerned is that the cause of your issues? So Amy Brown has written a book called Why breastfeeding grief and trauma matter. And one of the things that she says in that book is, the reason so many women were overwhelmed in the first place was that they didn't have support circles around them. She says their babies still needed feeding and settling to sleep. And now if you've entered breastfeeding, you've lost the mothering tool of being able to breastfeed a fractious baby. And on top of all that, you may now be mourning the loss of your breastfeeding relationship. So we don't really want anybody to end breastfeeding if that's not what they want to do. If you want information about antidepressants, again, the drugs and breast milk service from the breastfeeding network is a really good place to get information about that. It is absolutely possible to get medication for your mental health issues and continue breastfeeding. The population of people that take antidepressants includes a lot of people who breastfeed so we know quite a lot about breastfeeding and antidepressants are a fact sheets on the Breastfeeding Network website. And you can talk to the Drugs in Breastmilk specialist team as well. We know that research shows that women who end breastfeeding when they don't want to and don't meet their breastfeeding goals are much more likely to struggle with mental health problems. 

Now, of course, all that could be true and you could be somebody suffering with depression who does want to give up breastfeeding. You may have been dealing with challenges and pain, you may have had a successful breastfeeding experience and you might still wish to stop breastfeeding. And breastfeeding supporters are going to be there to help you to stop in the way that is the safest possible and the way that means helps you meet your goals. It might be that your partner is the one putting pressure on you to stop, you know partners struggle as well. They are also the victim of some of that wider cultural messaging that can undermine breastfeeding. Fathers, for example, may have had limited paternity leave. They may perceive that breastfeeding as a barrier to them being able to connect with the child and maybe do more parenting at nighttime. It is normal for a child to develop a bond with your primary caregiver and removing breastfeeding with all its benefits of physical health and mental health, you know doesn't solve that problem and instead could potentially do more damage to the child's relationship with their mother and breastfeeding parents, especially someone who is weaning reluctantly. Truth is that non birthing partners non breastfeeding parents often read less about breastfeeding they may not even be involved in the antenatal education on breastfeeding, they're more likely to go back to work quickly and not necessarily see you breastfeeding or understand the way that breastfeeding meets a whole variety of your child's needs. They may come back in the evening and just see breastfeeding as something to do with you know your child being over tired or stressed at the end of the day. If they are resistant to the idea of feeding an older child, you can signpost them to resources to read a bit more about it. So Kellymom.com have some fact sheets and information. This is just some just a list of some of the reasons to continue breastfeeding from from my book. Every 12 months you feed you have a 4.3% reduction in breast cancer. A study of 300,000 women found that breastfeeding reduces the risk of heart disease by 10%. An Australian study shows that breastfeeding for longer is associated with positive mental health outcomes into adolescence. A study in the Philippines shows longer breastfeeding duration improves social maturity and is associated with better school readiness continuing to breastfeed reduces the parents risk of developing type two diabetes by up to 47%. We have a 2020 study done by Dr. Natalie Schenker and the Parenting Science gang that looked at milk composition from samples of parents throughout the breastfeeding experience. So going up to two years, and milk was not losing its nutritional value. In fact, there may even be an increase in fat, some of the logical benefits of breast milk increasing concentration into the second year. So the idea that breastfeeding doesn't have value beyond infancy is not supported by any science at all. In fact, all the major world health organisations, the American Academy of Paediatrics, the American Academy of Family Physicians, every major health organisation worldwide supports continuing to breastfeed for two years and beyond. Now, you know, obviously if you list all that stuff and you give it to your partner, wouldn't it be nice if we imagine that your partner goes oh, okay, thank you for that information. I am now completely transformed. Did I now completely support your breastfeeding journey? It's not always that easy. We cannot necessarily provide evidence and our partner's concerns melt away and you can carry on breastfeeding for as long as you want to, you know, some of the prejudices around breastfeeding are really deep seated. 

You know, some of this could be about sex, it can be difficult for a partner to perceive you as sexual while you're still breastfeeding. It may be difficult for you to perceive yourself as sexual while you're breastfeeding and, and that could be something your partner struggling with. Sometimes when women talk about wanting their body back, that can actually mean wanting to feel a freedom to feel sexual and to reclaim their breasts as part of their sex lives. Many cultures really struggle to see lactating breast or sexual breasts and women's bodies are often compartmentalised. This is tough. I'm not saying this is easy. But again, you want to future proof this decision, if you're making the decision to breastfeed him because of the pressure from anyone else, even if it's your partner, that could be something you look back on with regret in years to come. extra tough when your relationship with your child's parent has ended. And you may be separated or going through divorce, and it's your ex partner who's putting pressure on you to end breastfeeding is a really useful statement that's produced being produced by the organisation breastfeeding for doctors that talks about this situation, it's really valuable, I'm actually going to read a chunk out of it now just to give you a sense of the tone of the statement. So it says in our professional experience, and this is a team of medical doctors in our professional experience, seeking to control or undermine the breastfeeding relationship may be an example of coercive control. Certainly any attempt to pursue sabotaging the breastfeeding relationship is a direct example of failure to prioritise the best interests of the child and to undermine their primary caregivers body autonomy. It can be triggering for people who did not develop a secure attach them themselves to witness responsive care and breastfeeding. In the UK, where breastfeeding rates are historically low. Professionals may conflate their own cultural biases and opinions with facts. They go on to say far from being harmful. Continued breastfeeding can be part of a responsive, healthy, emotionally secure upbringing. Also have a look online for Kathy Detweiler's court letter, which also gives you information about, you know, the value of continuing to breastfeed and why that is a normal biological state for humans. 

You might be considering ending breastfeeding because you want to drink more alcohol. I would caution you to do a research around that is myth that you cannot drink alcohol and breastfeed. You might want to have a tattoo, lots of tattoo parlours that don't want to tattoo people. It's more about licencing than necessarily safety. And there are reputable tattoo artists that work will do tattoos. You might want Botox injections, whatever is your reasoning. Make sure you've done your research because there's so much out there that says a blanket No. And actually when you do a little bit more, you find out that the false information isn't necessarily the what you want to make your decision based on. You might be thinking about ending breastfeeding because you're worried that your toddler doesn't seem to have much of an enthusiasm for solid food, you might be worrying that lots of breastfeeding is the cause for their solid food issues. Or maybe even someone else has told you that maybe even a health professionals told you that you need to cut back on breastfeeding to allow solid food to start to take more of a place. Reducing breastfeeding to create a hungry child really could cause them to be more frustrated at mealtimes. So when I wrote my last book, I spoke to Stacy Zimmels. She is brilliant. She's a speech and language therapist and an IBCLC. She specialises in every aspect of paediatric feeding. You can find her on Instagram as @Feedeatspeak. And she talked to me about a 12 month old that she had been working with who really hadn't been eating any solids beyond just a few spoonfuls of prune puree. And mom had been reducing daytime feeds to try and help her child to eat more. She really was reluctant to sit in the high chair. She was really, really struggling. And actually what Stacy suggested is actually to reintroduce milk to reintroduce mid morning and mid afternoon feeds. So the child was not that hungry. And actually it meant that the child was happier to sit in the highchair and happier to explore foods, mealtimes the idea of ending breastfeeding entirely usually comes from a place of devaluing breastfeeding. You know, it's sometimes seen as nutritionally poor, which is really far from the case. We sometimes hear stories of health professionals telling parents Oh, you know, it's there's no nutritional value or even turned to water. I've heard people say I mean, what the heck they think is happening biologically I can't even imagine what do they literally think is happening to the the milk producing cells that suddenly all the nutritional value gets removed. We know that an older child who's consuming around half a litre of milk is getting up to, you know, potentially up to a third of their energy requirements 43% of their protein requirements 60% of their vitamin C 94% of vitamin B 12 36% of their calcium just from that half litre of milk. So sometimes if you are struggling with solid food, you might need a bit of help around rescheduling potentially, and that's what people like Stacy can help you with. But the idea that removing that superfood that the child enjoys really doesn't seem very logical. And I spoke to more than one dietician to write my book and everybody was universal in that message. 

You know, in a very rare case that there might be an underlying problem. Breastfeeding actually may go on to have a real important value. So the idea that you stop breastfeeding, to improve solid food intake is really an example of a winning motivation that comes from a place of desperation, that if you don't have other support, if you don't have other information, that is sometimes the desperation that leads you to make these decisions. Maybe none of those things were true for you, maybe you're not worried about fertility, you don't want to start Botox, solid food is fine. And you know, you don't have to have any complex reasons to want to end breastfeeding. Or maybe you just feel like it's the right time to end breastfeeding for you. Hilary Flower again, who wrote that Adventures in Tandem Nursing has a really nice list. She says this, these are the signs that a breastfeeding relationship needs adjustment. You feel yourself withdrawing from your child. That, for example, could mean trying to avoid sitting on the sofa, you know, not wanting to sit down when you're with your child because you know, you'll be asked for breastfeed or purposely staying out of the house to avoid a breastfeed or purposely staying out in the house to give them their nap in the pram because you don't want to go home and have to nap feed them and breastfeed before a nap. She says watch out for if you hear an irritated tone in your voice when you say yes. Or if you feel you have no choice. When it comes to nursing it's not uncommon for there to be a power imbalance and something shifted. You don't feel in control of the situation anymore. You don't feel you have any choice? Do you find yourself snapping at your child while you're breastfeeding? Do you find yourself fantasising about wanting to end breastfeeding? Do you find yourself dreaming that your child may self weight and this is something that I sometimes say? I've worked with mums who are like, you know, consumer software unit 12 months consumer software and at 16 months, you know, how likely is it that they're going to sell for you know, 18 months, desperately scrabbling around looking for signs that self weaning happens at their child's age, dreaming that that child will start self weaning? I think that's a bit of a clue that something needs an adjustment and it's not quite working for you, you know, you need to allow yourself to listen to your instincts. In many cultures, mothers are expected to put their feelings in second place or even further down the list of their other family members. Know the ideal mother in inverted commas is never angry, they're always kind, they're always centering that child, you know, the perfect mother has time to play. They're always patient, you know, in a breastfeeding context. They're practising child led weaning, and you just accept that your body is not your own. So when you're finding breastfeeding, a struggle, and you don't fit that kind of image, and you wish it all to end, you know, it can really bring up feelings of guilt and shame. 

You know, you may be particularly well informed about the values of early attachment and the idea that weaning might cause your child distress, distress, which is your fault, because this has been your choice really can leave you feeling rotten. You know, you've got this magic tool in your pocket that you are purposely keeping in your pocket. Even though your child is desperate to breastfeed. You know, it's very easy to imagine that you are causing your child some sort of damage through your selfishness but you know, is selfish is not the right word here. You can stop breastfeeding, if you want to. There is no need for a reason beyond that. There is no need for an explanation more complex than that. You do not have to be somebody struggling with pain, you do not have to be strong to struggling with aversion or agitation. We can accept that parents may not want to breastfeed at all. We can accept you know, when you meet somebody who's choosing formula feeding and they're coming at that decision from a place of being informed, you know, very rarely these days, we'll be setting that person down and trying to talk them into breastfeeding. But you know, what's still happening sometimes in the infant feeding world is we're still sometimes trying to convince people to continue breastfeeding, with sometimes still trying to convince parents to practice child led weaning, or not to take initiative and practice parent led weaning, but actually we need to accept that parents have the right to end breastfeeding at any point. This is about body autonomy. It may not be possible to eradicate those feelings of guilt entirely. You know, you started this breastfeeding journey probably responsively feeding very much centering your child's needs. Absolutely focused on being there for your child, and making that switch to then thinking actually, and I'm now going to put myself first is sometimes a bit too hard, you may not be able to completely eradicate those feelings of guilt. However, feeling guilty about your decision may still be preferable to feeling resentful, or hating breastfeeding. The psychotherapist Philippa Perry writes an advice column in the Guardian. And she was talking in one piece about somebody who was trying to create boundaries with a friend. And she said in that letter, one reader of this column once left a comment saying if you have to choose between guilt or resentment, choose guilt. Wise words said fill up a parry, this is what I urge you to do - Choose guilt. So sometimes, you may need to own the fact that you're going to choose guilt instead of resentment. 

You may have created an image of in your mind of the kind of mother you wanted to be you maybe you created this identity of mothering and it in only felt complete. If you ticked all the boxes, the baby wearing box, that co sleeping box, you had to tick all these boxes. So to be this kind of parent, child led weaning felt it was essential. And now, you know, you feel like your identity is almost being stripped away, you know, you're almost your instincts to want to end breastfeeding, almost betraying yourself. There's a podcast called Nourishing the Mother. And in that podcast, Bridget Wood and Julie Turner, who do this podcast talk about identity crumbling, and the shame stumble of the identity crisis. Thank you to Rachel who highlighted that podcast. For me, this is a process of being open to humility, allowing yourself to rethink, to saying goodbye to a past version of yourself without any shame, and creating that possibility of a future version of yourself. No, you are maybe going to be a different kind of mother. But where did that pass definition of ideal motherhood come from? You know, did that past self really serve you? You know, we're not asking you to get rid of that past self entirely. But it's about integrating that image of what the good mother was, with what you actually need to be as a mother to get through every day. You know, for some people, there will be something spiritual going on, you might even have some kind of ceremony or rite of passage, in order to help yourself say goodbye to that past identity. And you're going to be welcoming that that future self, who can be a breastfeeding advocate, who can be an attachment parent, and can also practice parent led weaning if that's what you really need to do. 

Now, what is the goal of responsive kind parenting? You know, we are trying to create little people who are empathic and kind and recognise authentic emotions. Philippa Perry, who I mentioned before, wrote that really well known book that's selling like hotcakes, The book you wish your parents had read (and your children will be glad that you did), you might have that on your shelf. And when you first thought about having children, and you might have glanced through it, but actually, if you're in the middle of thinking about weaning, I would encourage you to go back to that book, and read it through the lens of now thinking about ending your parenting journey. The aim of parenthood is not to produce a child who is never sad, that is literally impossible. And a dangerous aim. You know, many of us who grew up in the 20th century did grow up in households where feelings may have been denied. We weren't necessarily allowed to express big feelings. And you know, we're working really hard to break those ancestral chains and break those cycles. But if we bite our lip through breastfeeding, if we are breastfeeding with resentment, what are we actually doing? And one of the things sort of a paradox about in a book is, you know, if you're telling lies to protect children from the reality of the situation, what you're doing is you're actually dulling their instincts, you are telling them something different from what they will be sensing and feeling. It won't feel comfortable for them. They won't necessarily be aware of why it doesn't feel comfortable, they won't necessarily be able to articulate that, but it could surface and other kinds of behaviour. She says we owe our children honesty, so that means sharing our feelings with them, rather than pretending we don't have any. Our feelings and personal preferences inevitably come into our decisions, and we must not pretend that they don't. So we're not saying we're going to end breastfeeding because milk runs out when you're three years old. We need to start being honest and authentic with our children. A good parent is actually an honest and authentic parent who models caring for themselves and expresses themselves truthfully.

So one of the things that she says in the book is a grumpy, honest parent who normally our society would write off as bad could actually be a better parent than a frustrated and resentful parent who's hiding behind a facade of syrupy sweetness. syrupy sweetness is not where we want to end up. We want our A home that's based on emotional honesty, we're going to create healthy boundaries by looking after ourselves and our own needs and modelling honesty and self care. Perry says the biggest hurdle parents must climb is letting go of the notion that their children must be happy all the time, particularly if that happiness comes from the expense of your parents happiness. So, you know, it goes without saying this is all leading down to the fact that even if your child does not want to end breastfeeding, even if you think it might cause them some sadness to end breastfeeding, it still doesn't mean that that's not the right thing to do. You know, even if they are sad, you will be with them in that sadness, you'll be validating them, supporting them, helping them through that loss, it still doesn't mean that ending breastfeeding is not the right thing to do. takes a bit of time to think about whether you're really ready to end breastfeeding. If you're not sure about your motivation, you may well be wavering, and guilt and shame may when and if motivations lack foundation, that's going to mean shakiness for everybody. And a child that senses confusion is going to be a child that feels more unsafe. But if you give yourself permission to end breastfeeding, if you acknowledge that you're doing this for yourself, you're going to be coming from a much calmer and clearer place. If you start the weaning process, thinking, oh, I want them to sleep better, I'm worried about their sleep. That's going to be pretty hard in the middle of the night when a distressed toddler is doing anything but sleeping and is clearly miserable, and is really angry with you that if you come from a place of saying actually, I'm not doing this for their sake, I'm doing this for my sake, and I'm allowed to do this for my sake, you're going to be coming from a better place. 

The process of weaning is a parenting opportunity. It takes many years for a young child to develop a sense of empathy, it doesn't get delivered by fairies. You know, when a child is first born, they don't even realise they're a separate person, a breastfeeding toddler will usually perceive that your breasts are still their breasts. And that process of gradually introducing that this is your body. These are your breasts, this is your decision about whether to breastfeed you're teaching them some really important lessons about body autonomy and about consent. You know, these are the lessons we need little people to know if they're going to go out to the world and be safe with their own bodies. So I want you to start the journey of weaning feeling excited about what life looks like on the other side. That's not to say you won't have any fears or nervousness along the way. But if you come to a peace with your own decision, come to a sense of peace and acceptance, you're going to find it much easier to have the strength to support your child through the process. So you might consider that the beginning that you need to maybe change the power balance and then see how things feel. So if you're feeling overwhelmed by your child's behaviour at the breast, if they're grabby, if you're struggling with nursing manners, if they're nipple twiddling, and it's just too much, you might be thinking, Oh, my God, I just need to breastfeeding completely. I just can't carry on. First of all, try and regain some of that power balance, try and put some boundaries back and take back some of the power. I know that word power sounds a bit negative, like I'm implying your kid is some sort of dictator but but sometimes we can lose that power balance a little bit. And toddlers can be the ones in charge of the breastfeeding out happening. It's not impossible to start with a responsive feeding situation and never really break out of a responsive feeding situation. But weaning is not the only way to regain that power. There are ways to regain that sense that this is your body and you make decisions about when feeding happens, you can do that and still breastfeed. And you can do that and help a little person develop their sense of empathy. We're in the 21st century, generations of women have fought to have control over their own bodies and control over their fertility and their parenting journeys. I'll say it again, you have the right to stop breastfeeding when it feels right for you. It is possible to end breastfeeding in a way that's right for the whole family doesn't mean your child is going to be thrilled about it. And they are very likely to need your help, but you can move forward with ending breastfeeding, if that's what you want to do. And we'll talk more about the practical ways you can do that in future episodes. 

Thank you for joining me today. You can find me on Instagram at Emma Pickett IBCLC and on Twitter @MakesMilk. It would be lovely if you subscribed because that helps other people to know I exist and leaving a review would be great as well. Get in touch if you would like to join me to share your feeding or weaning journey or if you have any ideas for topics to include in the podcast. This podcast is produced by the lovely Emily Crosby Media.